Klaus Uhrig from Plotprodukt: Emotion is Delivered Through the Voice

Klaus, you produce podcasts, radio plays and documentaries in very different formats. But what do the topics have in common? What does a typical Klaus-Uhrig topic look like?

Klaus Uhrig: When I look at the productions of the last few years, I could almost come to the conclusion that problematic, old, white men are my topic. I've made podcasts about Elon Musk, the art destroyer Hans-Joachim Bohlmann and about Thomas G. Hornauer, who is famous on TikTok as "King Thomas". I've often done stories that were somehow up in the air. But I'm actually most interested in the topics of history and technology. Especially the history of the internet or the history of space travel.

You attach great importance to concise storytelling in your productions. What exactly do you consider to be contemporary, successful storytelling?

Klaus Uhrig: The main thing is that it's not boring. That's not so easy. Especially with long formats like the Elon Musk podcast – the five hours each last an hour. If you research long enough, you always realize how broad the topic actually is. There's never a shortage of material. But how long does it stay interesting for listeners? This is where I like to draw on TV series dramaturgy. An important question is how many turning points a story has, how often the plot changes. You need several of these turning points per episode for the story to catch you. Sometimes you come across stories in life that already have this basic structure – they are particularly suited to being told in a podcast series.

As you mentioned at the beginning, you like to dedicate yourself to dazzling personalities in your productions. What character traits fascinate you in protagonists such as "King Thomas", Elon Musk or Kim Dotcom, to whom you have also dedicated a podcast?

Klaus Uhrig: One particularly suitable character trait is megalomania. Megalomania usually means that these people do a lot and are very erratic. Elon Musk is definitely a megalomaniac. Just like King Thomas – but he's also a special guy in all sorts of other ways. I would also include Kim Dotcom in this category with his narcissism. What these characters have in common is that they are all people who take themselves incredibly seriously. And as a result they initiate and experience a lot, so there is a lot to tell.

The decisive question for the dramaturgy of podcasts is: What is the essence of the story?

What dramaturgical criteria do you use to build a podcast once you have found a protagonist?

Klaus Uhrig: It always depends. There are stories that are best told as a research story. At the center is a mystery that you want to get to the bottom of. However, this only works if the research itself is interesting enough. I made the podcast "Who is Joni?" with colleagues from the Süddeutsche Zeitung. It's about a scammer who scammed our host. What was bad for the colleague turned out to be gold for the story. Something like that is very easy to tell as a research story. But there are also stories where it doesn't make sense. Take Elon Musk, for example. We asked ourselves the question: How do we tell this story? Musk is such a formative figure. He is a protagonist who always wants to determine everything himself. Our aim with him was to find the essence of his narrative. What makes Elon Musk's story special? And what relevance does it have for us who live in the same world as him?

Was there a surprising aspect of Musk's work that you hadn't come across before?

Klaus Uhrig: It wasn't that easy. Everyone's view of Elon Musk today is very much shaped by his behavior over the past five years. For example, the fact that he broke Twitter and is a bit of an internet troll. But we shouldn't forget what an incredible visionary he was with his rockets and electric cars. We also discussed this in the podcast. We wanted to explore the fascination with Elon Musk. Why did people think he was great? And why did we think he was great ourselves?

The podcast sector is still booming. However, some observers predict a negative economic trend. Where does the industry currently stand and how do you think it will develop?

Klaus Uhrig: In the USA, large podcast providers such as Spotify as well as smaller companies such as Pineapple Street Studios have recently laid off employees and discontinued several well-known podcasts – including "Heavyweight", a personal favorite of mine. That's a shame, of course, but on the other hand it's also quite normal. It's no different in the TV and video streaming sector: new formats are created and others are discontinued. In the podcast sector, this is new in that it's only ever gone uphill in recent years. I think what we're seeing right now is nothing more than a normalization of the market, not a "bursting of the podcast bubble", as some are calling it.

What is the current market situation like specifically with regard to serially narrated podcasts?

Klaus Uhrig: Serial podcasts are very specifically designed for digital use. In my view, they will always remain a premium product that is not financially worthwhile, but that you produce for reasons of prestige. To showcase your journalistic research, for example. This will be something for newspapers that have a large investigative department and employ many reporters. And of course also in the area of public broadcasters. In the commercial sector in Germany, we have long been dominated by talk and celebrity podcasts. In my opinion, that will remain the case. The market itself is not that much different than it was two years ago. But the feeling is different because the spirit of optimism has given way to the impression that the industry giant Spotify is in crisis. Some people then ask the question: where else will there be a crisis soon?

Podcasts use the voice to deliver emotions

What are your own audio listening habits like? What are you currently listening to, which formats catch your attention?

Klaus Uhrig: I've always loved listening to the podcast "Heavyweight". "This American Life" is also one of my favorites. It's a good example of a radio show that also works well as a podcast. On the German market, it's always productions from public broadcasters that grab me. "Schlomo" from NDR, for example, was a podcast that I really enjoyed listening to recently. It's the story of a Holocaust survivor who comes face to face with one of his former tormentors. An incredibly powerful, very emotional story. There are formats that I listen to every week when they come out. The "Ezra Klein Show", for example, which is a super good talk show. And finally "Imaginary Worlds". If I could recommend one podcast, it would be this one. It's an American podcast that I came across by chance. In it, a guy dives into a very nerdy topic every two weeks. It's about the science fiction author Philip K. Dick, for example, or alternatively about Harry Potter or "Dungeons and Dragons". The podcast has an extremely interesting way of reporting on fan culture.

What makes the audio sector so appealing to users?

Klaus Uhrig: Audio is strong in the areas of nearness and depth. They are two different things. My Elon Musk podcast is five hours long. With that length, you can really go into depth. You rarely have this opportunity on television, simply because it's very expensive to produce. The other topic is closeness. You notice how people open up more in audio. You can feel the emotion that is conveyed through the voice.

What trends are you observing in listening habits?

Klaus Uhrig: I think podcasts are becoming an increasingly natural part of the media landscape today. Among 40 to 50-year-olds, the audience is still divided into listeners and non-listeners of podcasts. Among 20-year-olds, on the other hand, there is hardly anyone who doesn't listen to podcasts. It is often said that young people only listen to TikTok, but that is not true. They move between short formats on TikTok and longer ones on YouTube or podcast platforms. Podcasts are the new norm in audio.

How important is Munich as a production location for you?

Klaus Uhrig: It really is very important to me. The location has made it extremely easy to set up my own company. I have a large network of freelancers here that I work with. From freelance accountants to authors, graphic designers, photographers and musicians. Another decisive factor for me is that there is sufficient studio capacity here, which has the advantage that I didn't have to set up my own studio.