"Paula sucht Paula“: On the Trail of a Courageous Journalist

Paula, in your podcast “Paula sucht Paula” ("Paula is looking for Paula"), you go in search of clues about the author Paula Schlier, who worked as a journalist in the years before the Second World War. How did you find out about her?

Paula Lochte: The two BR editors who looked after me, Andrea Bräu and Susanne Poelchau, were researching the Hitler putsch, which last year was the 100th anniversary. It was clear that we wanted to do something about it, but from a perspective that hasn't often been taken. Then the two of them came across Paula Schlier, who had sneaked into the NSDAP party newspaper “Völkischer Beobachter” shortly before the attempted coup. That was one of the first investigative investigations in Germany! But hardly anyone still knows Paula Schlier today. This is certainly also due to the fact that she was a woman. The more we read about her, the more we realized that this was a story we had to tell. So the two editors sent me on the trail of this exciting woman, who happened to have the same first name as me: Paula.

Paula Schlier: she was already questioning gender roles in 1923

Who was she and why did her story captivate you?

Paula: Paula Schlier was a Bavarian journalist and writer. She was already questioning gender roles 100 years ago. In 1921, she moved from Ingolstadt to Munich as a young woman because she wanted to free herself from her family's expectations. Her mother wanted to marry her off to an officer and turn her into a bourgeois housewife, but Paula Schlier wanted to live a free and self-determined life. She began working as a typist in a liberal news agency. When the far right gained strength, she felt she had to do something about it. She decided to go undercover at the “Völkischer Beobachter”, observed how the National Socialist editors worked and also turned violent during the Hitler putsch. I find her courage and clairvoyance incredibly impressive. That as a young woman she dared to do investigative research in this editorial office under her real name and put herself in danger. On the other hand, there were also breaks in her biography, she was not perfect, not a classic heroine – and yet she has a story that is worth telling.

Paula Schlier's story lies far in the past and her role as a journalist is complex. How do you begin such research?

Paula Lochte: Paula Schlier was a published author herself. So I first tried to get my hands on everything she wrote and published - her research, her newspaper articles, her book. There is also her estate, which is kept in the Brenner Archive in Innsbruck. I spoke to two literary scholars there, Ursula Schneider and Annette Steinsiek. I wanted to know: What have they found out about Paula Schlier, what are their findings, what fascinates them about the author? I was also allowed to look at and read letters, photos and unpublished material. That was very exciting for me. There were two moments there that I will never forget: Firstly, when I was allowed to hold Paula Schlier's little diary in my hand, which she kept during her undercover research. Suddenly her story was so real to me. I also learned another story about Paula Schlier that she never published: she was interned by the Gestapo in 1942 and only narrowly escaped being sent to a concentration camp. Being able to tell this part of her story, but also of German history, felt very special and important to me.

In podcasts, you can take the time to tell a story

Why is a podcast the right medium to tell this story?

Paula: For one thing, podcasts allow you to tell stories in series, which means you can take several episodes to tell a story. This is particularly important with a life as exciting as Paula Schlier's, otherwise you would have had to limit yourself to one aspect, for example one of her research projects. I was also able to contribute to the podcast myself, share my thoughts and communicate them. I then take on the role of the audience on their behalf, address open questions and take the listeners with me.

What challenges did you face with storytelling?

Paula: When you're doing a lot of research, at some point you have a whole wall full of Post-its in lots of different colors, and then you have to figure out how to arrange these Post-its in a meaningful way. In Paula Schlier's case, however, I found it relatively easy because it was clear from the start: you have to tell how she came to the “Völkischer Beobachter” and what she experienced there. And you have to tell how she escaped the concentration camp. The biggest challenge with this story was not to portray Paula Schlier too smoothly, not to turn her into a heroine. Because she also made decisions that I didn't understand, for example helping the editor-in-chief of the “Völkischer Beobachter”, Alfred Rosenberg, to flee from the police. You can't leave that out of storytelling, even if you wish she had acted differently - especially because we now know that Rosenberg was later one of the main war criminals. Storytelling should not mean telling a black and white story, you always have to allow for shades of gray.

People who knew Paula Schlier, for example her step-grandson, also have their say in the podcast – that makes it particularly exciting. How did you find her relatives?

Paula: I looked at who was shown in the photos or which names Paula Schlier mentioned in her letters – and whether there was a trace of a person who was still alive. The Brenner Archive, which preserves and researches her estate, was a great help. In the new publication of her memoirs, an acknowledgement to Wolf von Chmielewski is printed – which makes you wonder, who is that? It turned out to be Paula Schlier's step-grandson. I contacted him and he was immediately open to talking to me. That's great for the story, of course, because it makes a person more vivid when you find out about their everyday life: What was Paula Schlier like as a person? Did she laugh a lot? How did she dress, what did she look like?

The three podcast episodes are very lively, there are many voices and interview partners. Why did you choose this narrative style?

Paula: We can no longer interview the main character, so it has to be an approximation. In my opinion, this is only possible if you approach it from different points and from different perspectives. Of course, I would have loved to ask Paula Schlier herself! (laughs)

Paula Schlier's story makes you realize how close the Nazi era still is today

Assuming you had the opportunity – what would you ask her or say to her?

Paula: I would ask her where she got the courage from. Why she helped Rosenberg escape and whether she regrets it. And I'd like to ask her how she looks back on her life. A few years before her death, she started writing her autobiography, which was never published, but which she gave the sad title “Gescheitertes Leben” (“A Failed Life”). I would like to tell her that, on the one hand, I understand this because she never received the recognition she deserved, but also that, from my point of view, her life was a successful one. That she touched me, at least, with what she did.

What did this intensive research do to you?

Paula: The Nazi era and the 1920s that led up to it sometimes seem far away, but they are not far away at all. In terms of location: when we walk through Munich, there are so many places that bear witness to the events – Schellingstraße, where the editorial office of the “Völkischer Beobachter” was located. Or Odeonsplatz, where the Hitler putsch was stopped. This research made me realize that even in terms of time, what happened back then really wasn't that long ago. I can no longer talk to Paula Schlier, but I can still talk to her step-grandson. The way she writes, I recognize many parallels to myself and to today. The feeling that a democracy can unfortunately break down or at least be in danger was the same 100 years ago and is at least similar today. I think it's frightening that a party that is in some ways securely on the extreme right, such as the AfD, can become the strongest force in a federal state. Paula Schlier once said: “Taking responsibility is difficult, but it also means beauty, freedom and – it is necessary. That stuck with me from this project.

You have received several awards for this podcast, including the Munich Social Courage Media Prize from Caritas and, most recently, the German Radio Prize. What does this recognition mean to you?

Paula: It's simply overwhelmingly wonderful. I would hardly have dared hope to win the German Radio Prize. I'm also very happy about the other prizes: The Caritas prize, for example, is awarded for projects involving social courage – and I think that's an incredibly nice word for what we can take away from Paula Schlier. I also see all these awards as confirmation that we should finally tell history from the perspective of women. So far, they have mostly appeared as secondary characters, rarely as main characters. We need to change that.

You've been working as an author for Bayerischer Rundfunk since 2020. What fascinates you about the medium of radio and podcasts?

Paula: It gives you an incredible amount of freedom, you can play with music and sounds. I find it fascinating that you can bring something that has already passed to life, simply because you can make it sound like it did back then. Especially when I have a director like Rainer Schaller at my side, as was the case with “Paula sucht Paula”. And at the same time, radio shows and podcasts are so beautifully straightforward and low-threshold when it comes to research: there's not much equipment to intimidate interviewees. I also really like the medium as a listener because it's so close to you and you can easily take it with you wherever you go.

Berlin, Madrid, Warsaw and Munich: You've already traveled a lot during your training. Why did you stay in Munich of all places and what do you like about Bavaria as a media location?

Paula Lochte: The German School of Journalism in Munich is a fantastic training center for journalists – I got a place there and was able to complete the two-year training course to become an editor. You learn the journalistic tools of the trade from top journalists from many renowned media outlets – I benefit from that every day. I stayed in Munich afterwards because I wanted to work at Bayerischer Rundfunk. Many exciting long-form radio and podcast programs are produced here. Topics that are researched in depth, told in depth and tried to be innovative and playful.

Are you currently working on a new idea? Are there certain topics that you definitely want to tackle again in the future?

Paula: I'm currently working on a bonus episode of “Paula sucht Paula”. Something really nice happened after the podcast series was published: A former neighbor of Paula Schlier got in touch with us, who used to live in the apartment opposite her in the 1970s. She is now over 80 years old. I visited her and she told me about her memories of Paula Schlier. The new episode will be published around November 9.

I'm also working on a joint project between Bayern 2 and the Instagram channel “FrauenGeschichte”. The idea is to tell the stories of ordinary women from different generations and to get these women talking to each other. We believe that there is a lot in these everyday stories that we can learn about our society and how it needs to change.